Collegiate Times

We shouldn't be judging people by the color of their skin or the size of their checkbooks. Tech should reward achievement equally amongst everyone. If you want to have the student body be more representative of Va demographic ratios you need to fix the problems with high schools. That's where the problem really is in all of this.

Anonymous, I couldn't agree more. Addressing the issue of academic achievement at the collegiate level is too late. If they aren't prepared to do college work by the time it's time to apply for college, they're already well behind. Elementary school is where it should start. Making sure kids can read would be a great idea.

The problem is that qualified blacks are being turned down so that less qualified white applicants can attend Virginia Tech. There are several institutional reasons for this phenomenon, one of which is "legacy" admissions, where students who have a family member whom has attended the University is given an added bonus on their application. Seeing that this University wasn't integrated until not too long ago, the number of whites with this advantage severely exceeds the number of blacks. If getting into college was based on aptitude, then diversity would in fact exist at Tech. I've met many whites with SAT scores little over 1100 from wealthy high schools attend VT, and many blacks with higher SAT scores and 4.0 GPA's turned down. That being said, the focus is not on "multiculturalism" or "diversity". Both efforts are misguided. The focus should be on anti-racism, doing the hard work necessary to end the institutionalized racism at Virginia Tech. Although this is morally and ethically necessary, white people have always been reluctant (and in fact have acted as an overt barrier) to such change.

Classof2007 how is there institutionalized racism at Tech. Talking to a couple people you know doesn't count as damming evidence for a very serious accusation. Unless you can provide something better than a personal story your allegation will never be anything more than that. Frankly you sound a little bit racist towards whites you might want to look into taking sensitivity training.

Want evidence? The numbers don't lie. "Virginia Tech's proportional desegregation ranking - dead last when sized up against comparable institutions".

Classof2007, what you wrote is utter fabrication. The so-called “legacy” admissions of which you speak may be a factor at private colleges, but the numbers at a public college are miniscule if they exist at all. I will be contacting the Admissions Office tomorrow to check on this, because I think your assertion is pure fantasy. Even if they existed, I would imagine that athletic scholarships (emphasis on athlete, little attention to scholarship) more than make up the difference. As far as your claim about rich whites getting in over better qualified blacks, that is a lie. There is NO WAY a black student with a 4.0 GPA and an SAT score greater then a “little over 1100” would be denied admission to Virginia Tech. No way in the world. I suggest you start writing books because you have a very active imagination, although your penchant for conspiracy theories might handicap the believability of your yarns.

The numbers don’t tell the whole story. Did you even bother to read the story? “When you look at the admission numbers - students from underrepresented backgrounds are applying and getting admitted to Virginia Tech. The challenge is that they are not accepting the offer for a variety of reasons…” Maybe one of the reasons is that blacks don’t have the same desire to attend a traditionally agricultural school in the mountains of western Virginia. I don’t know. But if they aren’t accepting admission there isn’t much the University can – or should, frankly – do about it. Go peddle your racism elsewhere.

Could we get some help over here? It's gonna take several dudes to help life the enormous chip off of Classof2007's shoulder.

I tried to get into Hampton University but even though I had higher SAT scores and grades than some blacks I didn’t get in. Total BS.

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I see what's going on Classof2007 read something in a book and treated it like gospel. Rather than looking into the validity of the author's arguments he has become a parakeet regurgitating racial falsehoods at us. Here is an argument one of his books makes "every day is affirmative action day for the dominant group in America. Until that reality is altered, we must fight the ongoing assault on civil rights and equity measures." If you don't see the problem than I don't know what to say.

I should also clarify that the author means white people by dominant group

Great -- affirmative action in VT admission. 'cuz that has already worked so well in US society as a whole...

The author references the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, as well as the former president of Tech's Black Caucus. If we're talking about equality, shouldn't we also be hearing from the Journal of Whites in Higher Education, as well as the former president of Tech's White Caucus. Oh wait, they don't exist because if they did, it would be racist. And as far as helping out-of-state students financially, give me a break...that's why every state has at least one public school.

Thanks for the excellent article, Burke. Unfortunately, many efforts to correct this problem will be met with defensiveness and ignorance (like most of the posts below).

Anonymous, if the University offers someone admission and he doesn't accept, what is the University supposed to do about it? What is its obligation? I guess I'm defensive and ignorant, so I depend on you, oh wise one (read: typical condescending liberal), to edcuate my ignorant a$$. Solution?

Virginia Tech already has a White Caucus. It is more commonly known as 'regular classes'.

Good point anonymous at 11:34. I can't wait to get back to my Advanced Aerodynamics class and discuss equality for white people.

Hey, I think most of you have forgotten that the 1890's were a time when segregation was widely accepted. Besides, a person's (Lee) membership in a particular organization does not declare they are an evil person. Have you looked at Steger's background!? I can just see the responses to this already.. I'm sure the same people who disagree with my statement are the ones who argue our Constitution is outdated!

anonymous at 11:34 is probably classof2007 because he's arguing that Tim Wise BS.

I agree completely with the previous post that the reason admissions aren't being accepted is b/c "Maybe one of the reasons is that blacks don’t have the same desire to attend a traditionally agricultural school in the mountains of western Virginia. " That is the same reason that Tech has a very difficult time recruiting employees. Location, location, location. Many of us know this is an excellent institution to get an education or to work, but our surrounding area isn't appealing to the vast majority. No big city or beach nearby. Mainly rural...not a big draw.

How about this...no one writes if they are black or white and chances are the colleges won't know unless you have some odd name. I had way better SATs and GPA than a black kid in my HS and also did all the same extracurricular activities and had legacy and guess what he got into a Lehigh and I didn't why, b/c he is black. It doesn't make it fair.

In regards to those that espouse the desire for meritocracy, it has never existed in the past nor will it likely exist in the future. Self-interest, greed, and competition rule the standardized tests used at many levels. Some are better than others, but they have been readily proven to not accurately predict academic performance or capability much past the first year of college and graduate school. Hinting at the reason(s) for black students not accepting admissions here, the increasing tuition, general perceptions of the university as not being accepting to minority students, family needs, and a host of other reasons could keep them from coming. But these issues could also apply to white students as well as any other group. In terms of legacy admissions, though they are highly prevalent at private institutions, they are also in existence at public universities as well. There is research that has shown, for example, that legacies and athletes receive more of an advantage in college admissions than minorities. Perhaps you should read Bowen and Bok's "Shape of the River" to get a good look at the impact of affirmative action. If you want things to be equal, stop speaking ahistorically and understand that these issues have existed since the founding of Harvard in 1636 and will most likely exist until the structures that were put in place "way back when" are addressed today in modern society. Let things go does nothing to improve the situation or opportunities for anyone...

Correction: "Letting things go does nothing to improve the situation or opportunities for anyone..."

Normally whenever I see a column from Mr. Thomas I just know that it'll be something that I don't agree with. With that being said, this article makes a good point and it is well written.

Equal Opportunity in itself is Racist...But no one will acknowledge this because they dont want to be called racist. The fact that Tech HAS TO ADMIT a certain amount of blacks is GIVING an advantage to blacks, maybe not all but it is. Is that not the definition of racism? Maybe if some of the athletes, white or black, who have lower scores but get in because of their talent in a sport could give some spots back to these blacks that are getting treated "unequally"

Chris, you're talking about quotas, buddy. These were ruled unconstitutional in 1978 via the ruling in Bakke v. University of California.

The columnist does not have his facts straight. The renaming issue was not at the University of Oklahoma, but at Oklahoma State University. Further, the hall in question at OSU- Murray Hall, is still named after Murray and the issue was not solved in the 20th century.

De facto segregation and racism arise from the institution of public education that is currently in place. These injustices simply cannot be adequately addressed at the post-secondary level. Colleges are not failing the minority populations in this country; public, urban grade schools are.

Jayton, while I agree with your statement that the issues with the public education system is at the heart of many of the troubles we see in higher education, to say that the "public, urban grade schools" are the reason why minority students are failing is missing the point. De facto segregation and racism do not come from education in and of itself, it comes from many of the choices that parents make for their children with self-interest and preservation in mind. Does this make it wrong to want the best for your child? No, but it is wrong to take advantage over one person or another because the "system" allows you to do so and act like that is "fair," "meritorious," and "just." Besides, your statement that basically equates that all minority students attend urban schools shows a lack of understanding why inequality exists in this country. There is more to it than those "poor kids in the city..."

Concerned grad student is right, quotas are very, very unconstitutional, but it doesn't mean that they don't happen (i.e. the University of Michigan Law School scandal).

It is important to note that de facto segregation does not arise from racism, but rather from socio-economic conditions. Affirmative action policies only help minority students who can already afford to go to college. I would love to see more diversity on campus and I think the best way to do this would be to increase financial aid to those in need. However, with budget cuts and Republicans in the General Assembly, this will be hard to do.

To Finally: There is no such thing as a University of Michigan Law School Scandal. The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the Law School's admission plan of obtaining a "critical mass" as constitutional. They do not use quotas. But, your point is well taken. Just because something is illegal, it doesn't mean that it doesn't occur. For example, discrimination against non-white people is illegal. But, it does occur.

Thank you all for your kind and thoughtful comments. I would like to respond to an assertion made by Anonymous on March 27 (6 comments ago) that questions the accuracy of the facts of my article. The University of Oklahoma renamed DeBarr Hall in the 1980s because DeBarr was a KKK member. Anonymous falsely claims that I stated this incorrectly in my article and, presumably based on her/his misinformation, further contends that I do "not have my facts straight." I agree with her/his assumption that people who enter into a debate should use facts.

In our own way we are each a "Father of Terror." People who use illegal drugs have some how influenced the drug wars in Mexico that have cost 5600 lives. We stand still and complain about one man's association with the KKK while 25,000 children starve to death every day. So until we ourselves are without fault how can we condemn the actions of others?

As a tax payer though John Havranek, following your line of logic, I am responsible for U.S. military aid to Mexico and the military operations in Columbia. Take that a step farther and I am ending poverty and spreading freedom throughout the world, I'm a modern day Saint with these kind of actions. See the idiocy of your argument John.

Affirmative action is an ignorant policy to follow. Favoring a minority student over a majority is discrimination against the majority for simply being the majority. Policies like this will no doubt have to be fixed in the future when people realize that this reverse discrimination is a bad thing. Arguments like yours make it seem like a bad thing to be a white, protestant male. I'm all for recruiting minority students, but it should stop there. Once applications have been turned in, admissions officers should be color-blind, no matter what that means for statistics. That's equality. Minorities should not get an "in" to the university simply because of the color of their skin. The most qualified should get in. Period.

When has the admissions process ever been color-blind? When has it ever been solely based on merit? What is the reverse of discrimination? Such a concept makes no sense. I suspect it is a political term used to frighten those who have traditionally benefitted from white privilege. Get rid of affirmative action for white people; then and only then should be we consider getting rid of it for underrepresented populations.

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