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TOPICS: murder crime center for peace studies and violence prevention students for non-violence club police safety
"I think as a society we have to reflect and say, where should the resources go?" Nowak said. "Incarceration, or rethink this entire process of providing safety to the society, and try working as early as kindergarten, and transforming the type society away from violence and gun culture."
Not everyone agrees with that assessment. The university has equally passionate proponents of gun rights within Tech and elsewhere.
"Let's be honest: What we really need to control are things like murder. If you try to control where I can carry my gun or where I can't, it doesn't change who I am," said Ken Stanton, vice president of leadership at Students for Concealed Carry on Campus at Virginia Tech. "I am still the same person whether I'm on a campus or off campus. So regulating the gun or where I can possess it really doesn't do anything."
"You have to be 21 to get a permit, so we're talking about seniors and up. Secondly, only about three percent of Virginians (over 21) have permits anyway," Stanton said. "It's not like we would expect all of a sudden thousands of people (would carry on campus). We're looking at maybe a two or three hundred at most, but currently, those few hundred people are actively denied their rights."
"If someone is able to pass the background check, goes through the training," Stanton said, "that's the best we can do to ensure someone's going to be responsible."
Ultimately, despite divergent views in the university on how to achieve the goal, all aim for safety.
"We want to serve as an organization that can show you that you can stop things before you need to call 9-1-1, that you can end the situation earlier and on the flip side that if you need help to make sure that you do call for help," Lyden, of Students for Non-Violence, said.
Deisinger said his former department at Iowa State admired Tech's responses to prior instances of violence.
"As a fellow campus law enforcement professional, I was struck by the thoroughness of the response during the two crises that the institution has had over the past couple of years," Deisinger said. "We raised questions in my previous department about whether we were as prepared as what VT appeared to have been."
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"I think it's a myth ... you cannot create a safe school environment if you carry a gun," Nowak said. "Look at the crime statistics." [Citation Needed]. Let's see those statistics Nowak. I've never seen any statistics that backup gun control. While you're getting those, please keep in mind that comparing figures from other countries is a useless endeavor and is also meaningless so you are obliged to present statistics from the US. Good luck.
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What's really sad is that the "Center for Peace" has come out and attacked legal gun ownership right out of the gate. I guess we know who they really are now. It's too bad because there are so many more things they could do to honor our 32 and bring peace.
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Looks like the NRA-sponsored 'students for violence' are here to chime in right of of the gate!
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In case you've been asleep, pro-gun groups have been around for.. oh 250-ish years, long before the NRA. The group on campus in a grassroots organization and has refuted the accusations of being funded or even tied to the NRA - try to keep up. I know it's easier to spread lies and make slanderous statements than to learn something. And I'm sure you're content to attack all gun owners especially the victims of domestic violence who seek to defend themselves.
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anon, first of all, as Jeff noted, SCCC is NOT affiliated IN ANY WAY with the NRA. Other groups have made this accusation and have been unable to provide substantive evidence - because none exists (and none ever HAS existed). Furthermore, in no way is SCCC a group which should ever be considered "students for violence"; SCCC wants nothing more than for there to be an end of violence. In this way, SCCC and Students for Non-Violence simply disagree on the method by which to accomplish this end; not on what the final goal is. If both groups could come to agreement on THIS point, then both groups could move forward in a polite debate.
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Are you folks going to show up every time anyone tries to talk about peace? Are you invading church services as well or do you just have a vendetta against this one group? I don't think the peace studies group has the power to take your guns away. You should probably be arguing with the board of visitors and state legislature.
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Anne, is taking away self-defense a means of "talking about peace"? I'm pretty sure that the 1-2 million people who use firearms every year to DEFEND their lives would have some issues with that. And make no mistake, if you haven't seen what the "Center for Peace" is doing this week, it is against self-defense and legal gun ownership. Are you in support of a defenseless citizenry?
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No one has attacked legal gun ownership. The students are showing a movie that presents a single point of view -- it questions the idea that guns would always help in a crisis. This is not a debate on gun control, it's an event for those interested in nonviolence. This uproar about SNV (and the Center for Peace!) wanting to disarm law-abiding people against their will is much fuss about nothing. SNV wishes to explore an alternative to the mainstream point of view. Most people believe that guns solve problems. Why is SCCC afraid of another point of view when they are not even a minority? The 2nd Amendment is safe, and everyone knows that. Must everything be a fight?
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Perry, I think your view of the issue is rather superficial and ignores a lot of the realities of the situation. First, the special IS about attacking legal gun ownership and self-defense. If you were to take a few minutes and do a google search, you would find many critiques that make these points very salient. Also, an important point about the showing of this movie is that this is the first major activity hosted by SNV and the "Center for Peace" which shows that their stated mission and goals do not at all match their actions. They have also made outright lies about the goals of SCCC, which seems like they want to pick a fight. I don't think it appropriate to do so and then sit back and ask "must everything be a fight?" Do you?
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Thanks, Perry, you are absolutely right. Sure, some people are scared of the shocking realities of the special, including the myth that having a gun will protect you in a class shooting scenario, and that someone can make off with 10 firearms without having ID or background checked at a gun show in Virginia, but the film does not say "non guns for everyone." SCCC is trying to rally up all its supporters to come down from as far as Connecticut to crash this screening as a "anti-gun" event. Oh well, at least we might get an influx of travelers to support the local economy!
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Since Perry et al. are too lazy to look up anything on their own, I'll do the leg work for them: http://www.shoreshotpistolrange.com/2009/04/john-lott-abcs-shameful-2020-experiment.html http://gunowners.org/op041609ch.htm -- disprove those if you want to talk about it. It's clear that neither of you have ever stood up for something you believe in once in your lives, so I don't expect you to understand the realities behind all this.
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Actually, SCCC had plans to do their own recruitment activities this week, but they were overshadowed by this whole thing with CPSVP. And to the last anon, the internet reaches people all over the world, I don't know where you get this Connecticut bit.
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Perry, the problem is that the SNV is NOT simply showing a movie. They are showing a horribly biased "news report" and backing it up with a pro gun-control "panel"- this event is pure propaganda that isn't even germane to the goals of SNV (how does disarming the law abiding promote peace?). Anonymous, I don't see how the 20/20 report proved that concealed carry on campus would be ineffective. Their test consisted primarily of completely stacking the deck against the armed student. For a good rebuttal of the “report†look here:< http://www.examiner.com/x-2698-Charlotte-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m4d13-Myths-of-armed-selfdefense-If-I-only-hadthe-truth>. I agree with Jeff- it definitely appears that the SNV and CPS&NV is picking a fight with SCCC.
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ER's comment is perhaps my favorite of the lot. There is simply a difference in the two organizations' strategies for accomplishing the same mission: peace. I would perhaps alter this a little to say that SCCC members would likely tend toward skepticism that absolute peace can ever be reached, thus the belief in the need for seeking mechanisms to deal with the inevitable breaches of peace that will occur. The interesting thing about the 20/20 piece, in light of the mission of SNV, is that it says nothing of how we might coerce people to not shoot others out of malice in the first place, which would seem to me to align more with their goals than simply decrying guns. This leads me to believe, as others have stated, that this is a direct attack on bearing arms.
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i just want to say that this is probably the worst photo ive ever seen. tacky and classless
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I don't know where anyone is getting that SNV or CPSVP is promoting peace by supporting disarming law-abiding citizens. The film and panel examine the dangers of some very misguided laws, such as the gun show loophole. I'm all for WELL-trained, law-abiding citizens having their right to bear arms, but not anyone and everyone, especially on a campus. And with regard to firearms on campus, even for law-abiding students, a campus is no place for guns. It would be a matter of time before a law-abiding student left his carry in the wrong place at the wrong time, for any amount of time. Adding guns to the population only increases the risk of them getting into the wrong hands. That is irrefutable.
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how many in "s"ccc are even students? facebook group and posse looks more like bored, uneducated locals for students with concealed carry on campuses they have business on anyway? too long of an acronym I guess.
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All: Please find below an alarming thread on opencarry.com: "I won't be able to attend, but can one assume that non-students who do attend can OC?" While I thought that would be the case, an email to Ken [Stanton] with pretty much that exact question yielded this surprising (both in the level of vagueness as well as the anti-open 'carryness') answer: "While we talk about legality a lot, I'm not an attorney and can't make any recommendations on that. We definitely do not want any open carry, but if you consult your attorney and decide you wish to carry concealed, that's your decision." Dear Ken Stanton, No, it is not their decision. Shame on you for being so loose in your judgment. Anyone who attempts to bring any firearm to or near this event on campus will be jailed.
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the link to the thread mentioned below: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=31750&forum_id=54&jump_to=534696
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Anonymous, please cite your source. Virginia has no law against carrying openly on public college campuses, or carrying concealed while in possession of a permit.
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Also, you claim that it is irrefutable that more guns on campus would increase the likelihood of them getting into the wrong hands. Can you back that up? Most people who are of age to carry a concealed weapon live off campus anyway, and given the unlikely scenario that someone finds out that another is carrying on campus and then steals the weapon off the carrier's hip, I don't see your claim for increased risk.
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Careful, Jason, people might be shocked if they learned the truth on this. People might be shocked if they knew that only students, faculty, and staff are prohibited - yeah, those who contribute to the school and/or pay tuition - but the general public is not, which was affirmed by the Attorney General at the time, Creigh Deeds. People might also be shocked to learn that their 'special grounds' they call campus is in fact public property, and VA has a preemption law. People might also be shocked if they found out that lawful carry of firearms is a threat to no one, even on campus like BRCC up in Staunton has allowed for a long time. But why bother with all that? Panic and fear are better emotions to apply than logic.
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Are ya'll going to have a presence at this event, too? Josh Horwitz, Attorney, Author of Guns, Democracy, and the Insurrectionist Idea Executive Director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence will give a lecture, free and open to the public, followed by a book signing "Guns, Democracy and the Insurrectionist Idea: Is political violence a legitimate means of dissent in the United States?" Wednesday, September 23 at 7 p.m. Robeson 210 – Virginia Tech
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Kudos to Students for Non-Violence and the new Center for making Virginia Tech a national center of efforts to bring peace to our campuses and to prevent violence BEFORE it happens. You guys are a credit to not just the victims from your school, but to victims of gun violence (or any type of violence) across our country.
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As long as you believe that defenseless targets, like those lost in 4/16, are good ways to promote peace, Terry. I tend to believe that strong-willed people ready to defend themselves and others are better for stopping and preventing violence, but what do I know? I'm just an Iraq war vet!
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If this article is correct, Nowak is either a liar or the most unobservant person to reside in Canada for 18 years. He "pointed out Virginia's lax gun controls relative to other states. Additionally, policemen in Canada or Britain do not generally carry firearms." As a citizen of Canda for over 37 years with friends, relatives and former instructors on three police forces (two city, one national) including regular & motorcycle patrol, use of force & auxilliary recruit instructors, ERT (like the US SWAT), and Prime Minister protection detail--I can assure you that the only police I have ever encountered that were not carrying firearms are auxilliary police who volunteer their time for community events. Our CN Rail and CP Rail Train police and armoured guards with Loomis and Brinks are armed as well. Also, our border guards were recently issued firearms. If you want to find out why Canadians are gradually becoming more interested in concealed carry, google "Bacon Brothers" and "Surrey Six" and "shootings in Lower Mainland BC". With strict gun laws in place, citizens are not any more safe than with lax laws--just defenseless. BTW, I can count more than 7 shootings within a year in a 3 km (~2 mile) radius of my office as I type this.
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Mr. Kotlaba your the editor of a university paper and you let it be printed that Canadian police don't carry guns? THEY DO ALL THE TIME! How many more embellishments does this article have ?
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Beyond the basics, literacy skills are an anachronism. ,
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