Katie Biondo/Collegiate Times
Somewhere in Burruss Hall a document states a judgment on Virginia Tech’s actions on April 16, 2007. Somewhere in Burruss, the first determination of right or wrong has been made.
The Department of Education’s Clery Act review states whether or not the university provided the required “timely warnings” to the campus community on the day of the shootings. But that analysis is not yet public.
In the next six months, it will likely become one of the first answers to the myriad questions raised since Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 Tech students and faculty members and injured many more in two separate campus buildings before killing himself.
The federal report will eventually be joined by a civil ruling that could order state and university officials to pay up to $20 million in damages to two families who lost children in the shootings and felt questions loomed too large over the day’s events to sign a settlement with the state.
Three years after the shootings shocked and confounded the university community, some questions may finally be joined by answers.
A version of this article appeared in the Apr 16 issue of the Collegiate Times.
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Gotta admire how the Tech administration continually washes its hands of things. The threat assessment team is a good development, but why didn't anyone in Cook Counseling Center or the administration think about getting clarification on HIPPA and FERPA concerning exemptions for parental notification before letting Cho slip completely through the cracks with the mental illness? Instead they just crawled into their offices and tucked their heads in assuming that speaking up would get them sued for violating HIPPA and FERPA.
Tech has a legal staff on hand, why weren't they consulted? Why did it take 32 lives to be ended at the hands of a wingnut before someone in Blacksburg decided it was okay to write the Department of Education for clarification on FERPA?
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Fred, you're right. Furthermore, however, doesn't anyone find it odd that the old director of Cook Counseling Center "accidentally" had Cho's records at his residence? Of all the records to have "missing", it was his?
I still insist he was told, or perhaps chose, to remove those records because of how incriminating they are/were.
It's my hope that the two families get the $20 million. I'm not a money hoarder, but I still believe money is the only way to get the administration to realize the consequences of their lack of action.
How Steger still has a job is still beyond me.
As a graduate of Tech, I no longer hold its name with distinction...and getting back to your comment on HIPPA, Tech has always maintained an extreme view of "never share anything with anyone regardless". I speak from experience.
For the people who wish to respond with their typical, "it was the shooters fault, you couldn't stop him..." My comment to them is this: had Tech treated him like any other place in the US, he would have most likely been expelled for harassment. This is almost certainly the case at UVA, where they don't tolerate harassment. Finally, the first 2 murders were unavoidable. Anyone could have driven off the interstate and gone to West AJ and committed murders. The blame lies in the administration's doing NOTHING after the first 2 shootings.
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UVA rebuked: Feds furious over rape case gag orders
http://www.readthehook.com/blog/index.php/2008/11/14/uva-rebuked-feds-furious-over-rape-case-gag-orders/
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I still don't understand why everyone keeps attacking the adminisration. If he was going to kill, he was going to kill. There was nothing anyone could have done. Yes, perhaps they could have gotten him "help" but that doesn't mean that at some point down the road he still wouldn't have been a murderer. What if Tech got him help and he seemed ok...what if he then graduated from Tech and 2 years later became a murderer? Would you still try to find someone to blame for his actions? The only one to blame is Cho himself. He did this...no one else. So stop trying to place blame where it shouldn't belong and let everyone heal and move on from this.
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2007 Alum,
The point I'm trying to make is that the administration did NOTHING after the first 2 shootings, essentially allowing a killer (unknown at the time) to roam free. True, it may have happened anywhere anytime (just as you state)...such as 2 years down the road. The problem is that Steger should have said, "the truth is I don't know what the hell is going on...let's close the campus immediately, 2 people are dead". Police cars could have blocked all entrances/exits to campus in 5-10 minutes. Instead, the administration did nothing. THAT is the problem, not the fact that the administration missed Cho.
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Ok, say the campus had been closed. What would that have accomplished? Cho was already on campus, and on foot. At most, it would have "locked him in."
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I usually try to take a deep breath and calm myself after I read the ridiculous comments from people who think the blame “lies soly on the Virginia Tech administrationâ€Â. I’m not saying they did everything correctly but in no way are they to BLAME for what happened. This ladies and gentlemen was a tragedy; it happened..except it and start dealing with it. Cho was EVIL , “insane†if you are trying to define him in technical terms. (Personally I don’t think he should even have the privilege of being described in psychological terms because that would mean he had the characteristics of an actual human being). He was cold and calculating and had a plan. He was going to kill if it ended up being 2 people or 50. What if he waited 6 hours to carry out the 2nd shootings? What if had us on lockdown and he decided to “carry out his plot†in the dorms. Do you know that Prichard houses 1,000 students? There is so many “what ifs†about what happened and very few of them have been answered or brought any of us closure. I understand that the world was and is going to judge Virginia Tech’s actions on April 16. The investigation into Tech’s response on April 16, 2007, offers a chance for clarification of a university’s responsibilities in the case of a major emergency. But isn’t the primary objective here is not to PUNISH but to find ways to correct the situation.
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Hindsight is 20/20. If they had done something and it didn't work, I wouldn't be saying anything.
However, Tech administrators and the Cook Counseling Center played the game of c.y.a. and chose to do nothing. They feared liability for violating HIPPA and FERPA, so they elected to take the safe route and let Cho slide through the system. The right thing to do would be to ask questions and find out whether there was room for exemption to notify the parents. The Cho parents said they had NO idea or notification from Virginia Tech about their son's activities that got him in trouble nor his involuntary commitment. If they had, the Chos told the Review Panel, they would hae come straight down to Blacksburg to withdraw their son and get him treatment again.
Healing is not a euphemism for "overlooking willful neglect of duty". Cook Counseling Center had a duty to make a guardian of Cho's aware of his potential mental illness and the Policy Committee had a duty to let the community be promptly aware that two unsolved homicides had occurred ON the campus. Perhaps the outcome would have been changed. Had it not, at least an EFFORT would have been made.
This isn't about money, it's about accountabilty and holding VT administrators to something more than a "whoopsie" in the Review Panel Report.
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ditto.
you couldn't have worded this any better. my feelings exactly.
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In 2005, apparently Cho's parents knew their son was "SUICIDAL" but left it to the administration to deal with it. Who does that? Yes, you drive down here...demand he return home and seek treatment.
"The mother of Virginia Tech shooter Seung-Hui Cho had for years sought help for her troubled son.
The Washington Post reports that the members and pastor at One Mind Church in Woodbridge were going to help get rid of what the pastor called a "demonic power."
But before the church could act, Cho returned to Blacksburg for his senior year at Virginia Tech."
http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=644&sid=1134424
"A former roommate, Xu Chen, remembered that after Cho's parents came for a visit, his mother took the roommate aside. "Help him," she said."
"Cho’s parents called the school concerned that their son might be suicidal after one of the women rejected him. School officials responded by taking Cho to the Carilion New River Valley Medical Center in December of 2005, Flinchum said."
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/04/ho_stalked_wome/
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Who knows what would have happened had Cho been compelled to withdraw from Tech. My feeling is he would have one way or another ended his own life, maybe that of others.
I wouldn't suggest that Tech would be in any way responsible had he been removed by his parents and then two years later shot up a mall in Northern Virginia.
Cook Counseling Center's issues come to two points -
1. Why didn't they notify Cho's parents that their son had threatened suicide?
2. Why did his file conveniently "disappear" from their facility?
Now as for the lockdown scenario - I agree that it is not a panacea. Killings could have occurred elsewhere. However, it seems that Cho's plan was dependent on being able to chain limited entrances into Norris Hall. He was a coward and not physically imposing. When the police SWAT broke through the door into Norris, Cho committed suicide within five seconds rather than confront them.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHbDwPTxvoI&feature=related
Listen to this Virginia Tech student who also was a Columbine Survivor.... "The most important thing is for the community to stand behind the police force and administration." This is coming from someone who has been through two horrific shootings and still understands that Cho was NOT going to be stopped until he carried out his plan.
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I agree with the issue about Cook Counseling Center but I'm trying to look at this form the perspective that I don't think Cho was "insane", I think he was pure Evil. You can't define it or try to make sense of it, he was just a monster. In middle school, he was diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder known as selective mutism, as well as major depressive disorder. (blah blah blah how many kids get diagnosed with this each year? They don't go shoot up their schools) He received treatment for this so obviously his parents had a clue that he was off his rocker which is why I don't understand how they let him go 5 hrs away to a major college campus. I think parents are the reason why kids are screwed up these days and if his parents could grasp the fact that their son was a spawn of Satan then maybe 4/16 would have not happened. But his whole "i'm depressed" "i'm angry" "the world hates me" non-sense is so over used this days as a reason why people kill it makes me what to throw up.
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@ 2008 alum: Thanks for that video link. I recall the story aout Regina Rohde, who was present in the cafeteria at Columbine the day that spree occurred and then eight years later at Foxridge in Blacksburg on April 16th.
She was interviewed in the immediate aftermath of the VT massacre and it's clear that grief and traumatic personal memories were flaring up for her. Yet I'm concerned by what she suggests (paraphrasing here) that no matter what security measures are in place, they [lunatics] will find a way to do it anyhow.."
Does that mean we should all be resigned and accept our fates in said situation, line up for our turn to be shot by an assailant? Should a female attacked by a mugger submit to rape? I think not.
Also, three years later, it's clear the Tech community has given the administration and police benefit of the doubt. There were no rallies outside Burruss Hall chanting "hey, hey, ho, ho, Steger should resign because of Cho". But it also is worrisome that the response to this quickly changed from initial shock, to grief to pep rally in the span of 24 hours after the incident.
This needs its day in civil court for review under the law and it is not insensitive to insist upon that.
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You can play out events any way you want but Cho's paranoid schizophrenia saw himself as a persecuted hero (behind his silence & sunglasses) bent on revenge. In his sick mind, his impending graduation was "forcing" him to act. I'd guess his parents coming to get him for treatment would have had the same result...or added them to the list.
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@ Since you brought up his parents.
It looks like Wired had some bad sources for their information. They had nothing to do with their son's 2005 commitment to Carillion. The official review panel report as well as numerous other sources stated that Cho was detained after his then roommate Andy Koch received an IM from Cho stating, "might as well kill myself now", following his run in with the two girls via IM who contacted police thereafter.
Chos parents had no idea about the commitment until after their son committed the spree killing. The were never informed.
Also the name of a supposed ex roommate, Xu Chen, Ive never read of that name in connection to Cho previously.
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I was incorrect but I remember reading that in the Post (over reading the VT Report). It was erroneous information that Wendell Flinchum may have received early on. It was Mr. Koch and his father who called the police.
However, his family was aware that he was troubled and did not pursue the matter with him. Maybe they were afraid to ask or maybe they had become blind to the symptoms obvious to others. Teachers and classmates were avoiding him out of fear but when he goes home its situation normal. It just doesn't add up. Without question Lucinda Roy and his roommate did more for him in his four years here... by asking questions, advising him and seeking help.
"Mr. SHU CHAN: When their parents left, the mother, you know, grabbed me, said to me, like, help him."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9642190
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I have an idea. Let's take today and celebrate the lives of those 32 Hokies Angels up in heaven instead of fight amongst ourselves about the past and what we can not control today. Feel free to begin the fighting tomorrow, but for today, let's come together, remember, and celebrate 32 wonderful people.
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Exaclty. I can't believe they chose to run that article on the front page on Friday.
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Seung-Hui Cho's actions were clearly wrong. Did his actions make him an evil man? I do not have that answer. What I do know is that he had mental illnesses. I also know that he should have been barred from getting any fire arms at all cost. This would have prevented the tragedy on 04 16 2007.
I believe that if any of the victims of these shooting were to speak, they would ask the Virginia Tech Community and beyond to forgive Mr. Cho for his actions.
It is important to refrain from throwing blame around and wishing for vengance. Our brothers and sisters that died on that fateful day would want everyone in the Hokie Community to come together and work to heal the wounds.
I wish I were on the Virginia Tech Campus and could have located Cho and told him that shooting people is not the answer and perhaps averted this tragedy.
It is possible that Mr. Cho may have been teased(still does not justify killing people).
Right or Wrong, many people that feel 'backed up against a wall' and feel that their only option is to kill those that they feel wronged them. Does not make killing right.
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Steven:
You clearly have earnest sincerity and intentions with your words. However, I doubt that expression of those to Seung-Hui Cho would have made a dimes worth of difference in averting the outcome. He was fascinated by the Columbine attack and likely saw an attempt to emulate or top it as his way of making a notorious and prominent exit from an unextraordinary, underwhelming life.
People did repeatedly try to reach out to him. His roommates would take him out for a meal, Cho hardly spoke. They tried to include him in social events, but he tended to act very oddly- stabbing sofa cushions with a knife. He wrote the lyrics to Collective Soul's "Shine" om the wall of the dorm and listened to the song repeatedly. Always went to play basketball -alone or rode in circles on his bicycle in the parking lot in the wee hours. Faculty tried to reach out to him, Lucinda Roy, Nikki Giovanni and others went so far as to have him tutored individually when his serreptious cell phone picture taking of females led to his ejection from class. Yet he was hostile to them with the sunglasses wearing, the screaming tirades about stories etc.
The Tech community bent over backwards to try to bring him in line with the mainstream of the student body, but it was without success.
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Adding to my previous comment:
If infact Seung-Hui Cho were teased and needed friends, I wish I also could have been able to offer friendship. Perhaps he may have chosen to peacefully hand his guns over to Blacksburg Police and live have been saved.
Many families are losing their homes while others live in luxury. Maybe those with excess means should forgo some wants and help those in need.
My photography business may one day put me into a position to buy a Ferrari or Bugatti. I hope I can forgo said cars and and instead give money to families so they can keep their homes.
As much as I want to, I can not undo what happend at VT on 04 16 2007. What I can do is make myself available to the Hokie Community in any way possible to help with healing. I must lead by example and bring peace.
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As a freshman who was there that fateful day and is still here, I was always flabbergasted on how people easily point the finger at the University for what happened. However now that put some thought into it and did a little research, Fred does have a good point.
Luckily I over slept that morning and missed my 9:00 a.m. physics class just a few buildings away from Norris, but I remember waking up around 10am and seeing the e-mail about the two students who were shot at 7:15am. I was wondering why classes weren't canceled still more than 2 hours later.
In those 2 whole hours (which was plenty of time even without the emergency system we have now), classes could have been canceled and everyone back at their residences.
Yes Cho probably could have chosen a dorm or somewhere else instead but considering if classes had been canceled that day, his plan at Norris would have failed since no one would be in there. What would have happened had classes been canceled, It's hard to say but I'm sure 32 students wouldn't be dead.
Regardless Tech would be released of blame today if they had canceled classes and locked down within those 2 hours.
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As the father of a student who was killed on April 16th, I could not disagree more with Professor Gregory's assertion about the potential "fallout" from "egregious violations" of the Clery Act resulting in large amounts of money and resources being required to improve and increase campus police departments, etc. In fact, one of the key focuses of the Clery Act is issuance of a timely warning in an emergency situation, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the size of any police force. Having 1000 more police officers on a campus means absolutely NOTHING when no one knows that a deadly threat exists. As a result, I would respectfully submit to Professor Gregory that having the best capability for issuing a timely warning, and executing said warning as soon as possible, is not only far less expensive than armies of law enforcement, but, far more effective in saving lives.
Lastly, maybe it would better serve colleges and universities to consider safety as not only their number 1 priority, but, as an actual investment item on their balance sheet that will generate return on their investment, rather than a simple expense item to be cut from a budget in tough financial times.
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Mr. Pohle:
You spoke wisely on that point about notification. The hemming and hawing that went on in Burruss Hall squandered precious time that could have been spent sheltering in place.
When the administration failed to speak up, lives were subsequently lost. Never again!
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Thank you Fred. I become quite angered when I read these so called "experts" offering financial armageddon statements relative to mountains of manpower being required when it is simply a matter of sending the message out. That's it. Hell, they had warning sirens but didn't even turn those on until AFTER the Norris Hall bloodbath was done. The school should also prepare and practice as best they can, however, that is not financially viable because of lost productivity. Heaven forbid we lose a day of classroom time so we have to pay another day of wages, utilities, etc. Agreed, it is impossible to anticipate everything, but, would you rather they do something to prepare vs. April 16th where everything was done ad hoc, and driven by confusion and "what ifs". The challenge is to change behavior from worrying about fundraising as a conflicting priority with safety.
Besides, if you look at the salary databases you will easily see that they are extremely well compensated (better than the private sector) and are in a perfect business. By that I mean when state aid is cut, tuition goes up so. They can't lose! Nor do they have to dive into their $1 Billion Foundation in a significant way so as to impact their revenue stream. Tell me any other business model in the world that has it any better than that.
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@ Mike Pohle
Speaking of finances at Virginia Tech, I saw on my missed calls display on my phone that Tech called on the eve of April 16th looking for donations. Tasteless, tactless.
Tech had lots of opportunities to avert the circumstances that culminated with the massacre. Unfortunately the state employees there are well versed with the self protecting two step. No one was willing to reach out and connect the dots on Seung Hui Cho to get him out of the university environment. Likewise no one was willing to issue a red alert warning after the first shooting occurred.
The end result of the two step, the public pays in blood, dollars and lives, but the state employees all keep their jobs for their "whoopsie" which occurred due to being "unclear about their responsibilities under the law".
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Neither lawsuits not ass covering will solve this. Changed behavior is necessary.
Some changes have been made - more are needed. Imagine if all the money that is being expended on these lawsuits went to increased security, more counselors
and better skilled communicators instead.
People are still falling between the cracks, right now. in fact, the ass covering is sometimes actually creating the cracks and actively pushing people into them.
Virginia Tech still has a long way to go in eliminating the ass covering
and making more actual constructive change. I hope they can. Still, based on current behavior, I really wonder if they will.
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Terrorists tried to blow up the WTC in 1993. When it was attacked again it took TWO planes for the FAA to ground all planes. Ben Sliney, the man who ordered the grounding, responded to being asked what was the biggest problem of the day? †Resolving the anomaly of the towers … I couldn’t believe a pilot would fly a plane into a building even if they had a gun or knife held to their head. A pilot, given the opportunity, would do everything to avoid loss of life on the ground - that’s their credo.†Mr. Sliney could only make sense of things, “when I saw Flight 175 fly into that building… It then came home to me that this wasn’t the act of a single hijacker and that there were possibly many more out there.â€Â
Even with knowing that the WTC had been attacked before AND an extensive air safety background AND the understanding that a pilot would do anything to avoid people, Mr. Sliney needed two planes to fly into the buildings to realize there was still a threat. Mr. Sliney infers he was going to let the remaining 4,000 planes in the air fly had the second plane not hit the south tower.
The unfortunate events at Norris Hall, like Sept 11th, had no precedent. Never before had a person started a killing spree and then stopped for some time, changed venues, only to begin again.
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