Alexander M. Huppert
Virginia Tech Police were called to the Drillfield Wednesday afternoon following a report of a student stabbing his own hand with a pen.
Police were called at 1:19 p.m. by a 911 call from a witness at the scene.
Alexander M. Huppert, a freshman university studies major, then assaulted an officer who approached to check his welfare, according to a police press release. After a short struggle with the officer and several witnesses, he was taken into custody.
RELATED: Father describes Huppert as a good kid who needs some help.
The incident took place near a table promoting a local version of “Ask an Atheist Day.” The student group Freethinkers at Virginia Tech sponsored the table.
Witnesses said Huppert stood near the table for nearly an hour. Approaching the table, Huppert borrowed a pen and drew a circle with a cross inside on the back of his hand.
Nicole Schrand, a senior psychology major, said Huppert then asked students at the table to stab him in the cross with the pen to “prove to us God existed.” The students declined.
“We don’t believe in assaulting people,” Schrand said. “We’re very against assaulting people.”
Huppert then asked for the pen back, a request Schrand and other students declined. Seeing another pen, Huppert grabbed it and began stabbing himself in the back of the hand.
“If it had been a more streamlined pen, I would have expected it to go through,” Schrand said.
Wade Duvall, who was also working at the table, walked away from the table to call police. Duvall, a graduate student studying physics, first called the Tech Police non-emergency number.
“They told me to hang up and call 911,” Duvall said.
Tyler Pease, a freshman communication major, intervened when he saw Huppert attempting to stab himself in the wrist. Pease, a member of Campus Crusade for Christ, convinced Huppert into giving him the pen.
Schrand said Huppert attempted to confront Duvall after seeing him on the phone, but several people at the table stood between the two.
Duvall said an officer showed up in less than a few minutes. He said Huppert did not cooperate with the officer’s command to take his hands out of his pocket.
Duvall said Huppert then “smacked” the officer on the scene. In the resulting struggle, the officer called for assistance to apprehend Huppert.
“He kept calling for help,” Duvall said. “So I joined.”
Duvall initially grabbed Huppert’s arm. Pease also assisted in subduing Huppert. With additional officers responding, Huppert was taken into custody.
“I was shaking after it was over,” Duvall said.
Pease said the incident ended “better than I expected.”
“As soon as he started hurting himself I was thinking to myself this could go really, really badly," Pease said.
Onlookers were surprised at how quickly the situation escalated.
“I didn’t realize what was going on until police subdued him,” said Brenda Hawkinson, who observed the incident. Hawkinson described Huppert as “glassy-eyed.”
The release said that while in custody Huppert broke out a police car window and assaulted two other officers. None of the officers’ injuries required medical attention, and no other individuals were injured during the incident.
Huppert was charged with three counts of felony assault on a police officer, as well as charges of resisting arrest and destruction of property.
He was processed and transferred to Montgomery County Jail, where he is being held without bond.
The report said the investigation was still ongoing.
Schrand said the incident was not “what we were hoping would happen” during the event. Schrand noted the desire to remain polite during the event.
“We did not try to be offensive ever,” Schrand said.
Pease commended the group for having a “very open dialogue” during the event.
A version of this article appeared in the Apr 14 issue of the Collegiate Times.
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Sounds like this guy is mentally ill and not fit to be around people.
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Aren't all religious people mentally ill? This is an extreme case, but I can't help but to wonder if an atheist has ever stabbed himself with a pen to prove god doesn't exist.
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Perhaps a mentally ill atheist?
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I am a religious person and I am not mentally ill. Whats wrong with you to say something as stupid as that. I don't push my religion on people and I respect everyone's rights to have there own beliefs. If you choose not believe in God than thats on you, don't judge us that do though. That man there is ill obviously. It would be like me trying to walk on water to prove that there is a god. I ain't stupid.
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Alex is not religious, he is atheist. So now... what were you saying?
It's obvious that he wanted someone to prove to him God exists. Why do you default to thinking he is religious at all?
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Technically we can not prove that a god does not exist as you can not prove a negative. However we can show it is highly improbable that a deity exists.
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How can we show that it is highly improbable? I'm very interested to hear your explanation, and I hope it doesn't simply include things like "a loving god wouldn't let people suffer, therefore god doesn't exist." You said "deity," not a particular god. This is a tricky term, and I really doubt that you can derive a probability from a set of infinite possibilities.
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How can we show that it is highly improbable? I'm very interested to hear your explanation, and I hope it doesn't simply include things like "a loving god wouldn't let people suffer, therefore god doesn't exist." You said "deity," not a particular god. This is a tricky term, and I really doubt that you can derive a probability from a set of infinite possibilities.
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Religion can be beneficial and supportive if not abused. Unfortunately this is a sign of religious abuse, this man could not have had a well-rounded religious understanding. It is possible for religion to play a positive role in anyone's life (anyone that wants to), however it is scary how influential the wrong institutions can be on an individual.
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Nice, dude. You are officially just as bad as the religious people you so loathe.
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Thank God the officers did not taser him or beat the crap out of him, or worse yet, shoot him deader than a hammer. These cops deserve high praise for keeping their cool and not using disproportional force against this nut. Many cops in this country would have pulled out their gun and murdered him in the name of self-defense. After all, it is never OK to talk back or be aggressive to our gods in uniform.
I am very critical of police and police abuse. However, in this case it sounds like the police did an excellent job in handling the situation.
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i agree with this.
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So the fact that it took multiple people to detain him doesn't justify tasing? Come on.
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How do you figure the police handled this well? A mentally unbalanced young man went from a wounded hand to a three time felon because the police became involved. They shouldn't have been called - this wasn't a police emergency,and having been called, they should have declined to spend resources on a guy who hurt _himself_.
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@UncleJohn: I disagree entirely. This sounds like a clearly unstable young man who quickly proceeded from self-inflicted pain to violence. Do we really need another situation where people ignore the signs until it's too late? These were students, who were probably very frightened- I would be- and I think it is very commendable how they handled themselves and the actions they took. Perhaps life for all of us would have been different had Cho's stalking complaints been escalated to an arrest. Additionally, this student is not a "three time felon" yet, those are initial charges.
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UncleJohn - if this guy attacked three different police officers who tried to intervene _for the sake of his own safety_, what makes you think that this would've turned out better if the cops had never been called? Are you trolling or something?
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Whatever, he is charged with assaulting a police officer and will not get off easy, let his dumbass stab himself in the hand, cops only make problems worse with very few exceptions. If a cop grabs me I can't claim assault, but if I struggle to get out of his grip I can very easily get resiting arrest and assaulting a police office. F that and F the police And please stop putting people jacked up mug shots of people up. It is a weak attempt to make them look worse.
Lastly, the religious debate is comical. I believe in God but not any of you fools. The only problem I see is when people wont take responsibility and blame things on God or the Devil. Like most people this dude needs something to believe in, maybe he might listen now and someone can tell him it was God's will for this dumb sh*t to happen.
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Natural Selection. Let Darwinism Take place....
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I think all religious people have something wrong with their brains. Whether it be an evolutionary regression or a chemical imbalance, something is wrong with people that can have faith. Faith is a concept that does not make any sense at all.
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Ah yes - tolerance and acceptance at its finest right here folks.
I really, REALLY don't get why certain groups, particularly atheists, that claim (emphasis on "claim") to be so open-minded, rational and intelligent have such an unyielding need to so UNintelligently tear down others' beliefs in a public setting.
I bet that makes you feel good, to just assume that anyone who disagrees with you is simply insane. I would love to live in your fantasy world where I am one of the only remaining rational, free-thinking human beings. Sigh.
Not only are this kid's religious beliefs or lack thereof completely irrelevant, but your comment and the others that resemble them are offensive, infammatory, unnecessary and highly reminiscent of your average internet troll.
This is why agnostics are so much easier to converse with. In my experience, they are much more open-minded. You would think that by very definition, that would be obvious. Like a commenter below said, the main difference is the willingness to consider the supernatural vs. the complete and total unwillingness to do so. And now I'm rambling. My point is, live and let live, my friends.
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Your an idiot if you think
"this kid's religious beliefs or lack thereof completely irrelevant"
It's the utmost of relevancy, and from the content of your comment you don't entirely disagree with his statement. You just think it is brash, well brash or not people need to know that saying and doing complete irrational things should not be tolerated.
Just because some moron believes in this or that doesn't mean it should be taken seriously.
Rambler, the point is live and let live, but let people know when they are bat sh!t crazy!!
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@Surfer - Despite the fact didn't really make any sense, I'm going to try to clarify.
People of all ideologies and beliefs can be depressed, bipolar or otherwise mentally ill/unstable. Everyone is attacking his supposed belief system as if that were THE reason for this outburst, when *common sense* tells us that this is not the case. Mentally ill is mentally ill and is not synonymous with far-right Christianity, far-left secularism, Flying Spaghetti Monsterism or anything in between. "He is a Christian. All religious people are insane. Thus this was the reason for his outburst," is the absolute laziest "logic" imaginable and has no basis in fact or common sense. I'm sure it makes a lot of secular folks feel a lot more secure about themselves, though.
An equally mentally unstable Wiccan (just to use a random example) would just as easily find an opportunity for a strange outburst such as this.
To further clarify, I will quote Nicole Schrand, below...
"Even to those of us who were present at the scene, Mr. Huppert's motivations were unclear. His actions, manner, and speech seemed very disorganized. I and Free@VT are definitely of the opinion that Mr. Huppert's religious views are irrelevant to this incident."
I stand by my statement - his religious beliefs are indeed completely irrelevant. Thanks for playing.
Also, thanks for the name-calling. I find that this tends to lead to maximum productivity in the context of serious discussions. ;)
PS - It's "you're", not "your".
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seems like a pretty intelligent person IMO
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This guy could be very intelligent but it looks like he has a severe case of Schizophrenia or something which usually starts to manifest in individuals who have it around college age.
If not that then this was a desperate attempt of attention in which case he still needs psychotherapy.
I'm not psychologist so I won't speculate but if he's not mentally ill then I just wonder how people like this get into tech in the first place.
At least he didn't hurt anyone else, this guy could have been another shooter. I hope he gets the help he needs.
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What... he was just trying to prove "God" exists. This is as valid an argument as most religious people apply.
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there are other ways to try to prove god exists if you really want to try. how does stabbing yourself prove anything? all that proves is you can feel pain.
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I was being sarcastic. My point was there is no valid approach for a theist to prove "god" exists.
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[Wednesday is hooking up an electric chair]
Wednesday: Pugsley, sit in the chair.
Pugsley: Why?
Wednesday: So we can play a game.
Pugsley: What game?
Wednesday: [strapping him in] It's called, "Is There a God?"
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The same could be said about any atheist trying to disprove the existence of God. You cannot prove it one way or the other. Please go troll elsewhere, and take your pompous, ignorant attitude with you.
Seriously - this is coming from an agnostic.
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Atheists don't necessarily try to disprove God. Most atheists are "weak" atheists, where they state they merely don't believe in God, but provided the evidence they would choose to believe.
Theists on the other hand, choose to believe in their God(s) despite evidence to the contrary. At best, it makes sense to be a deist. The subscription to a specific doctrine is ridiculous.
Also, agnosticism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive.
I suggest the following FAQ:
http://www.reddit.com/help/faqs/atheism#Whataboutagnosticism
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For the record, agnosticism doesn't make your comment any more or less relevant.
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Then I coin a new term that means what agnosticism is supposed to. I don't know and believe that knowing is beyond comprehension. Atheists are at least skeptics, which to me doesn't fit the definition of true agnosticism.
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No Atheist EVER tries to DISPROVE the existence of God. They only point out that there is absolutely no tangible evidence for the existence of God.
You just can't disprove the existence of something that really doesn't exist in the first place.
Try disproving the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster for example.
And your 'agnostic' mark, please go back to being religious. You seem all the same being one or the other.
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Atheism is the result of applying one of the single most common tools employed by humanity as a whole, credulity. People are disinclined to believe in wildly improbable claims with no evidence, precedent or rational support. Religions, and the notion of god or gods, falls into this category.
People embrace a religion when they elect to stop employing credulity in a particular instance. Agnosticism is the result of someone without the spine to challenge convention. That's why most agnostics are still oriented towards a particular religion. They're agnostic about a particular god, like Jesus or Yahweh, but not "agnostic" about, say, Zeus, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc. They're not actually open minded, objective, or rational.
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Most atheists wouldn't, and don't, try to "disprove the existence of God" for the simple fact that this amounts to trying to "prove" a universal negative. The onus of evidence falls on the theist/deist to justify and provide evidence supporting the claim that a God exists, not on the atheist to "prove" that one doesn't.
Now, if one were to propose evidence intended to show that a God exists, than the atheist can critically examine the evidence and show why it doesnt support the claim of the theist/deist, or why the argument put forward is invalid.
Take something like say, Bigfoot for example. I don't believe that Bigfoot exists, but I can't prove that it doesn't, or in other words, I can't "disprove the existence of Bigfoot". However, each time someone produces "evidence" such as photographs, video, or mangled animal carcasses in a freezer; I can point out inconsistencies, expose frauds, or at the very least explain why I don't find a particular photo or video very convincing. No one has ever "proven" that Bigfoot does not exist, but I don't believe it does because the evidence is far from convincing. Yet some people still believe in Bigfoot. Some people claim to have actually seen it. Are you agnostic towards the existence of Bigfoot as well?
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Atheist have a belief system. It's a belief that a god or gods do not exists. People who believe god exist spend a huge amount of time and money trying to prove their beliefs so what is wrong with people who believe god does not exist doing the same.
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As much as you say that I mischaracterize atheists, you mischaracterize my agnosticism. I don't subscribe to any religion. My agnosticism is purely scientific at its core. Here is my ethos: "I don't know why the universe came to be, but as a scientist, I understand that this is a logically sound question to ask, although it may never be answered." Do not confuse this as not knowing "how" the universe came to be. We have postulated the mechanism of the big bang, but I want to know why the t=0 universe existed in the first place.
To me, the difference between atheists and agnostics is that atheists know that there is likely no way to prove existence of a deity through empirical evidence, therefore they never have to consider a deity existing.
Agnostics know that there is likely no way to prove existence of a deity, but they are willing to consider the fact that there may be things that are true but transcend scientific explanation.
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You don't have to prove there is NO god to be an atheist. Nor do you have to know there is NO god. All that is required is that you don't have a belief in a god.
That's not much different than your definition of agnosticism. Since you claim to not be able to prove it one way or another, I assume you don't have a belief in a god, just like me.
I don't have a belief in a god,..... and I call myself an atheist. Why should I have to prove no god exists? Not believing in god describes my atheism quite nicely, thank you.
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You don't have to prove there is NO god to be an atheist. Nor do you have to know there is NO god. All that is required is that you don't have a belief in a god.
That's not much different than your definition of agnosticism. Since you claim to not be able to prove it one way or another, I assume you don't have a belief in a god, just like me.
I don't have a belief in a god,..... and I call myself an atheist. Why should I have to prove no god exists? Not believing in god describes my atheism quite nicely, thank you.
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gods are for the weak, i wish we had stronger people!!!!
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So far, this is the best statement I've read.
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this guy is your typical example of someone who can't open their mind to other views and opinions. sure, if you believe in a higher power or god then you're going to disagree with athiests. that doesn't mean you need to go around stabbing yourself like a lunatic to prove your point. i'm an athiest myself but i respect and will listen to people of all religions. there's no need to get crazy and violent. there are also undoubtedly mental problems going on that need to be taken care of or next time he WILL hurt somebody. lock him up and get him help NOW or regret it later when he hurts someone.
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I don't think so, I think he's just mentally ill.
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I believe the intention here was a sort of argument through emotion or extreme devotion, showing that his devotion to his god was so complete that he would do anything to demonstrate it, though I have no idea at what point assaulting the police officers started looking like a good response. All-in-all, it was completely disturbing.
I do hope that he gets the help he need; he did seem quite disturbed, though I will not hesitate to note that my opinion is just that, and is no where near that of a licensed psychologist.
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You go girl!
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Ah, you mean like a suicide bomber.
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No, I mean like someone suffering from a mental disorder. While the two may not be mutually exclusive, they are not the same thing.
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Lets see if VT administration is smart enough to take necessary steps including expulsion, if this student is deemed a danger to himself and others, or if they will leave him alone and wait for another 4/16.
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Most likely he'll be expelled since he assaulted police officers and busted a window and now has a criminal record but if he isn't then the least that will happen is that he'll be suspended and need to go to therapy for a semester and won't be able to return until a therapist provides a letter saying he's safe to come back.
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this guy is nuts. Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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I do believe that a few intrepid souls <i>did</i> decide to use even go want to do look more like, back in the 50s when everyone had really been far evener than now.
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What the crap are you trying to say in that jumbled mess of a sentence?
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You're kidding right? Many have been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. This guy have been not far even as decided as many other have been decided to use even go want to do look more like, you know?
-
(This might help for any confused souls.)
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/has-anyone-really-been-far-as-decided-to-use-even-go-want-to-do-look-more-like
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Attention: Neeeerd alert.
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Go back to 4chan.
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Go back to 4chan.
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Just checked back...
I was just having some fun, dude! Also, I have never been on 4chan (don't judge a man on his fancy seude shoes!).
I think I will go stab myself in the hand now, that outta show you to disagree with me!! :D
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Excuse me *suede
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Everything went better than expected
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A crazy fundie sent to jail for being a crazy fundie... WINRAR
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Sounds like just another Campus Crusades Wednesday. Thanks again for the show!
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I love how people still follow a bronze age mythology without a shred of evidence. And then they claim that their holy book, despite it's innumerable contradictions is written by men inspired by God.
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I'm atheist, and please don't start this on collegiate times. Inflammatory comments, such as this, don't need to be said. The person involved is likely experiencing mental health problems. Religious or not, people don't usually draw on their hands in pen and expect to prove anything by stabbing them.
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It's not inflammatory; as far as I can tell every word of that comment was true. Except perhaps "innumerable". The number of contradictions in the bible is large, but countable.
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First, I'm agnostic.
Second, it IS inflammatory. It's just as bad as a devout christian commenting on a story about atheism and telling all atheists they are going to hell. Why is it necessary to attack others' beliefs? There's no need for you to comment on something like this so that others can see it YOUR WAY. Live and let live.
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I'm atheist, and please don't start this on collegiate times. Inflammatory comments, such as this, don't need to be said. The person involved is likely experiencing mental health problems. Religious or not, people don't usually draw on their hands in pen and expect to prove anything by stabbing them.
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I'm not sure how your drawing the line between "religion" and "mental health problems"
The bible is full of story's where people do things that many would call mentally unstable (sacrificing your children because god said so for example) And yes many religious people know those aren't true story's. But many more religious people really do think the bible is literal truth. Would you say they are all mentally unstable?
How can a religious person tell if the person stabbing them-self is doing it because they are crazy, or because god is telling them to? Faith?
Are there people who claim to be agnostic on the issue?
If not why not? And how is it any different than being agnostic on the issue of the existence of god itself?
The line between crazy and religious is very very blurred.
PS: If you think I'm saying all religious people are crazy then you're not understanding me.
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What are you a 15 year old rebelling against his family? I swear your arguments are copy pasta from about a billion others I've seen on the internet. Actually no, most religious people don't consider self mutilation a normal thing. A line is crossed very clearly when the campus crusades attend in a polite fashion, and a side participant who is unaffiliated with said group decides to go mental for some reason or another, doesn't mean it's religions fault that there is a wacko out there.
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Most people have a lot more stress when entering college, and it doesn't surprise me one bit that a few have a mental break down. I realize you know most religious people aren't crazy, but would you kindly blow off your beliefs on another forum like www.reddit.com/r/atheism because to be honest you are only making atheists look like pompous a**holes on this site.
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Good Job Mr. Pease!
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Huppert likely just got carried away in the heat of argument. That doesn't excuse his actions and he should be held accountable for slapping the officers. However, it appears from a cursory online search that Huppert has friends and isn't hanging out in his own silent void or referring to himself as a punctuation mark in conversation. So compared to Cho, who was on his own frequency, Huppert is probably treatable and won't be a threat to the community at large after completing treatment.
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he stabbed himself, kicked out the window of a police car, and assaulted officers. how many people out there do you know would get carried away in an argument and start stabbing themselves? throw him in jail and get him help... once pull something like this (especially at VT where we have an unfortunate history of crazed idiots killing people) it's pretty much over for you as far as your reputation around campus goes. it's only gonna go downhill for him from here, he may as well leave.
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it it people like this, that make me laugh ,, who cares what you think, reputation lol, your all losers 2 somebody- yes he may need help and may never get it-and on the other hand you may need help and never get it- who gives a crap mind your own- and please, no-one cares about your thoughts, call your mommy and talk your problems out!
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What an idiot, sitting here talking about reputations. Grow up, life goes beyond a college reputation. When there are people out there, that seriously need help. Obviously anyone who thinks its over for you because your reputation in college goes downhill, is clearly not going to make it far in life. It's self-absorbed, careless people who drive people into doing crazy actions such as this one.
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I was sitting at the "Ask an Atheist" table when this happened. I can tell you that Huppert didn't get caught up in argument. He wasn't arguing. At first, he wouldn't say anything; he just drew a circle on his hand and put it on the table, then stared at us for a long time. Finally, he asked my friend to stab him, which we all refused to do (my friend actually didn't even understand the request right away; he thought the guy was asking him to place the pen on his hand, not to stab him. After her realized the kid was asking him to stab him, I remember saying, "hey man, we don't do that.") Then, he grabbed a pen that was on the table and stabbed himself several times until there was blood. The first couple of times he actually missed the circle, and stabbed other parts of his hand.
He wasn't arguing. The Campus Crusade kids were conversing with us, and they were very cool from what I could tell. I actually liked the Campus Crusade kids a lot, and would like to talk to them again if they wanted. Huppert was entirely different, and was not associated with Campus Crusade.
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This guy clearly doesn't need friends. He needs counseling, therapy, and possibly medication.
I have no doubt that he's a nice enough guy, but he very likely has a mental illness. Hopefully his friends would recognize that and get him the help he needs.
As for his religious beliefs, they are very likely not relevant. The mentally ill often use a religious belief system as a focal point for their illness. This is quite common with schizophrenia, in fact. There is much documentation and studies of this, although not much evidence for why it happens or what causes it. Speculation is that early life exposure to religion (parents teaching their kids about god and the devil and such) gets ingrained at a deep level, so that when the mind starts to go, that deep training comes to the forefront. Thus the hallucinations about the devil trying to get them and such. Huppert's particular psychosis may be somewhat along those lines, which would explain at least some of his behavior.
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I was sitting at the "Ask an Atheist" table when this happened. I can tell you that Huppert didn't get caught up in argument. He wasn't arguing. At first, he wouldn't say anything; he just drew a circle on his hand and put it on the table, then stared at us for a long time. Finally, he asked my friend to stab him, which we all refused to do (my friend actually didn't even understand the request right away; he thought the guy was asking him to place the pen on his hand, not to stab him. After her realized the kid was asking him to stab him, I remember saying, "hey man, we don't do that.") Then, he grabbed a pen that was on the table and stabbed himself several times until there was blood. The first couple of times he actually missed the circle, and stabbed other parts of his hand.
He wasn't arguing. The Campus Crusade kids were conversing with us, and they were very cool from what I could tell. I actually liked the Campus Crusade kids a lot, and would like to talk to them again if they wanted. Huppert was entirely different, and was not associated with Campus Crusade.
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i'd rather him sit there and argue than start stabbing himself and attacking people... but i don't know, maybe that's just me...
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The sensationalist headline isn't necessary. It was a cheap pen, not a knife.
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You should have seen how hard put the pen into his hand...
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This Nicole Schrand girl is really loving this attention. She'll be on the news tomorrow saying the whole atheist group was founded and ran by her.
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To DeeAgeen: Please do not insert your complete ignorance about a completely unrelated topic into this discussion. The sad events that transpired regarding Huppert are the focus of this story, not who runs Free@VT or anything of that nature. Nicole took care of all the preparations for our event on the Drillfield and she is an integral part of our organization. Rather than attack her, you should hope that Huppert receives the help he needs and comes out of this a better man.
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He should have gone with the banana argument.
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No, I think stabbing yourself is much more convincing. How much more proof of God could get than that? :)
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How about instead of judging and assuming things about Christians, Theists, Athiests, etc., we respect each other. That sounds much better than leaving your own rude, disrespectful remarks and put-downs on other belief systems and people...
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How about instead of judging and assuming things about Christians, Theists, Athiests, etc., we respect each other. That sounds much better than leaving your own rude, disrespectful remarks and put-downs on other belief systems and people...
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How about instead of judging and assuming things about Christians, Theists, Athiests, etc., we respect each other. That sounds much better than leaving your own rude, disrespectful remarks and put-downs on other belief systems and people...
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What ever happend to the VT alert for this incident? We get them for the most ridiculous things like some drunk kid wandering into the wrong room, but not this?
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This is an extremely valid point you bring up. As far as I can tell, we were not sent alerts because the system is only required if the situation could harm others within the campus community. Seeing as how police apprehended him, they could claim that the situation would not extend beyond the original occurrence.
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Then you would complain that you were receiving too many alerts...I guess no winning with you.
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They caught alex immediately, he was only a threat for the five minutes they needed to arrest him. No need to let all of campus know if it is no threat to them
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I wonder what he'd have to do to himself if he wanted to prove the existence of Cthulhu.
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Someone watched a south park rerun last night!!!!
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Yeah, because yknow, we're totally going to be sold by your willingness to self-mutilate in the name of your god. Why don't you come to our table with sensible arguments like creatures that exist by strange accident. Talk to us about Platypi, Octopi, and Bombardier Beetles. I am an atheist but I cannot explain their evolution. Stabbing yourself in a hand-drawn cross doesn't exactly replicate evidentiary data...unless you're writing a paper at Bob Jones University.
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Yeah, given both the environment and the behavior, my first guess wouldn't be "mental illness" so much as a youthful tangle with either drugs or alcohol. Alcohol especially gets you in the mood to take a swing at the police.
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There's no question he needs help, and I'm sure there's a lot more to the story. I've discovered that he saved a young boy's life who was in full cardio and pulmonary arrest. He's never had a run in with the law prior to this incident.
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Can you post where you found this, please? I'd like to know more about Alexander Huppert, and I'm concerned that many people are demonizing him due to something that could be outside his control entirely.
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http://townofhaymarket.org/documents/GainesvilleExpressFebruary2010.pdf
see page 3 and the picture on page 4
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I knew him in high school. He's very smart but painfully shy. I'm betting drugs were involved. I've been told synthetic drugs are readily available in the dorms at VA tech. No first hand knowledge though.
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I am his sister, if you really would like to know more about him call me, or message me on Facebook.
I would love to answer questions just to clarify things.
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Silly Christians: in order to prove your beliefs you need to nail yourself to a cross, not try to produce stigmata on yourself with a bic pen.
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Total d*&k comment.
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Mr.A: one day you will bow your knee to that Silly Christian who died on that cross for your sins !
Have a nice judgment day !!
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Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree... Makes perfect sense
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How did this guy escape darwin all these years. I think he proved if God does exist he has no problem creating morons.
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I think Virginia tech is cursed
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Virginia Tech is not cursed, this stuff happens everywhere, Virginia Tech is just more publicized because of April 16th, remember the 3 months before April 16th, all those poor Amish children lost their lives at the hand of a crazed man with a vendetta, that was the day I said to myself, if it could happen to the Amish, it could happen anywhere.....and look what happened. Its acknowledging that these tradgedies happened, and knowing and understanding why they happened that will make this society better. In order for this society to become a whole, we have to educate, open our eyes to more things around us, only then will this world become a more safer place to live in.
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Please, I was at VA tech for three semesters before I transferred out after the shootings. Every semester I was there, someone had died on campus violently. There is something in the water there
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Everything in Virginia is cursed - that's what happened when you turn an entire state into a Native American graveyard.
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Religious people aren't mentally ill they are just brain washed from youth by repetition. Say the same thing over and over and over again and anyone, even the strong willed, will believe it. It's human nature and not easy to fend off. This guy however is definitely mentally ill and lets be thankful he didn't have any real weapons available to him.
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I love this...these replies are better than the actual story...keep it up america! (& yes i live in america, formerly blackburg)
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Yeah I know. I once believed in Santa Clause and the Ester bunny. After I graduated from that I believed in God. Then after thinking about it I finally realized how rediculous religios thought is and how people since the dawn of time always looked to an answewr to the most difficult questions to mythical beings in the sky. Whether it be Baal, Ah Puch, Enki, Hanuman, Loki, Zeus, yahweh, Jesus, Alla or you name it. Today Zeus is thought of as a mythical God. I'm quite sure in time our modern Gods will be thought of the same way. Hopefully for humanities sake though in the future people will come to their senses and not believe in mythical beings. In the mean time I won't hold my breath.
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Amazing that after 4-16 that Virginia Tech Police department would direct him to hang up and call 911!
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funny thing is that by hanging up and calling 911 the response time will actually be increased.
if you don't understand the dispatch system (emergency v. non-emergency) please don't post ignorant comments.
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dont you mean the response time would be DECREASED?
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I have always picked nits with the nomenclature of the atheist vs agnostic labels. Someone down there in the fray got snarky for someone saying they were agnostic instead of atheist as if the one label wasn't hardcore street-cred scientific enough for them.
I prefer the word agnostic over atheist for the simple reason that its more accurate. Agnostic means "one who doesn't have knowledge" whereas Atheist means "one who believes there is no god".
The affirmative belief in the non-existence of a god to me is something which should be predicated upon evidence or it is just as nonsensical as being religious.
We have no evidence for either position so the only rational statement we can make is that we simply do not know one way or another. Then you move on about your life and stop worrying about what other people think and try to achieve something productive with all that extra time you now have on your hands since you left off the intellectual equivalent of trying to lick your elbow.
Cheers.
Oh. My official Fark comment for this is...Sure the pen is mightier than the sword, but keep this man away from a sword all the same.
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Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive... in fact, you can't really have a valid comparison of the two. It's like apples and oranges.
Atheism vs. Theism is a statement of belief or lack thereof. Gnosticism vs. Agnosticism is a statement of the ability to know something.
See handy graphic in attached article:
http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/
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This is consistent with my picked nit. I was faulting the self identified atheist for slamming the self identified agnostic for not being strong enough in his assertion that there was no god. The agnostic would not make such a claim and still be agnostic.
The mere statement of certainty would preclude it.
More interesting was the later discussion on Gnosticism vs agnosticism. Please note the use of and lack of capitol letters where appropriate. To the best of my knowledge, there never was an antithetical cult of "Agnostics" in direct opposition to the Gnostics. There was simply orthodoxy.
I have also never heard the term gnostic used as an antonym of agnostic since, by definition, the knowing of a god one way or another would make them a theist or atheist.
In the historical cult sense...Gnostics were most certainly theists.
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Agnostic , actually it means beleaves in nothing- not knows no knowlegdge,,lol wow you guys all use big wors to sound smart, and you still all come out sounding boring and dull , and full of crap, live a life , one day in reality and youd see were all sinners even the priests and your own pparents, so blow goats and stop this ranting crap shmanks
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agnostic:
1. "a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience."
2. "a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study."
Source:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic
Good try though.
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I consider myself an agnostic because I am open minded enough to think there MAY be a god. An agnostic is someone who thinks there may be a god but does not specifically name who or what it is.
Quite frankly, I this whole thing has gotten completely out of hand. People can believe what they want to believe and they shouldn't push it onto everyone else. End of story.
This guy obviously needs some help. There is something obviously wrong with him. People who are mentally stable don't just stab themselves with a pen. The police did exactly what they were supposed to do, and he is getting the punishment he deserves. Christian, athiest, agnostic, or whatever.
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The term agnostic often means one who believes that the existence of a deity is unknowable. Atheists don't speculate on the unknowable since they are grounded in empirical observation, so how can they be agnostic?
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Commenting without actually reading is a waste. Please read:
http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/
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I did read it. Waste of time. I disagree vehemently with their characterization of atheist. It portrays an atheist as a person who has an active disbelief. The subtle difference is that most atheists I've met tell you it's wrong to say they disbelieve, because there is nothing to suggest there's a god in the first place. Therefore, if it weren't for religious folk telling them there is, the idea would have never occurred to them since it's not observable.
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1. Neither the agnostic or the atheist (or the theist, for that matter) is required to speculate on the unknowable. One either believes a thing or he doesn't.
If a person is grounded in empirical observation, and there is nothing empirical to observe, why would a person who lacks a belief in gods not be an atheist?
All that is required is that an atheist does not believe. Grounding in empirical observation is not the issue. It's whether or not one believes.
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I feel sorry for this young man. Whether he is religious or not, he is clearly mentally ill, and seems to not understand the consequences of his thoughts and actions. As an atheist and a formerly religious person, I believe it is best to do what's possible to get this young man some psychiatric help.
Kudos to the VT freethinkers group on being civil to this young man and trying to keep him from injuring himself further.
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I'll stop attacking your beliefs when you stop attacking me with them.
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the above reply wasn't meant for Nova1967's comment. I got clicky and missed.
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Religion is dumb. Agnostics FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I have yet to see a successful nation that has had no religious influence.
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The Cops should just sit and watch. Eventually he will tire himself out.
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Do not stoop by calling the religious names. Let them be, as you would want them to let you be. Some of you all are sounding as bad as the creationists/fundies.
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I would dare the kid to stab himself in the Neck
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I hope that you do not mean this seriously. Encouraging others to harm themselves is not responsible or moral behavior.
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I just want to commend you, out of all the comments on here, you are the only person that has show maturity, its good to know that there are still people with sense left in the world. Kudos to you!
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I hope that you are not serious. This event is not one to be taken lightly but one to be responded to with a degree of maturity. Our main concern should be for the well being of Mr. Huppert, not his condemnation.
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I will be honest. I'm an atheist but I know this kid because we went to the same highschool(and now same college), though I never talked to him before. But the thing here is that he does not have too many friends, which is just like me. I want to go talk to him and befriend him really bad now, even though I'm an atheist and I won't know what he'll think of it.
I just feel somewhat connected to him on how our social lives are like. I've been in his shoes of feelings, even though I have not done something like he did. I have sympathy.
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I was touched by your comment. Imagine how this kid feels right now. For the first time in his life, he's done something seriously wrong, and now he's sitting in a jail cell. He has no contact with family or friends. A week ago his biggest concern was probably Chem lab or a Calculus exam. Tonight - he doesn't know where he is, he just wants to go home.
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It blows my mind that when one individual steps out of society's norm, everyone automatically targets whatever beliefs they may have had at the time and post this label on others who may have the same beliefs. Regardless of your religion, if you are constantly putting everyone else down you aren't representing what you believe very well. My beliefs do not affect any of you, and although I wish my beliefs for everyone else they will not be forced upon anyone. I understand getting defensive when it comes to what you believe in- but where is it getting us? I think that it is awesome that students from the atheist table were able to peacefully communicate with a christian. Two very different belief systems having an educated and mature conversation about what they believe. If we want to argue about things like little children and pretend everyone but ourselves is wrong, then we might as well head back to the play ground and handle things the way we used to- every man for himself, and ya better hope your light up velcro shoes were fastened real tight.
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It blows my mind that when one individual steps out of society's norm, everyone automatically targets whatever beliefs they may have had at the time and post this label on others who may have the same beliefs. Regardless of your religion, if you are constantly putting everyone else down you aren't representing what you believe very well. My beliefs do not affect any of you, and although I wish my beliefs for everyone else they will not be forced upon anyone. I understand getting defensive when it comes to what you believe in- but where is it getting us? I think that it is awesome that students from the atheist table were able to peacefully communicate with a christian. Two very different belief systems having an educated and mature conversation about what they believe. If we want to argue about things like little children and pretend everyone but ourselves is wrong, then we might as well head back to the play ground and handle things the way we used to- every man for himself, and ya better hope your light up velcro shoes were fastened real tight.
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I think the problem with arguments starts when people start misrepresenting one another. I completely agree with people mass-labelling belief systems as wrong, but felt the need to add it happens to atheists a lot too. I think what annoys atheists the most is when someone claims they are a belief system of a world view, what they view as "bringing them down to forming belief without evidence". This is since by and large atheism is exactly what you get when you lack those belief systems of world-views that involve the existence or non-existence of deities. Those who actively believe in no god don't make up much of atheists. In fact, most are weak/agnostic atheists, they don't know either way, but because of that they reject the positive claim there is a deity until evidence is provided. Completely agree with your comment though, Disappointed, I'm just being a pedantic arse about it :)
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The comments on here are concerning.....it doesn't seem like anyone is taking this seriously at all. I have a 10 year old who has a mental illness..do any of you realize how sad this is? Mental illness is a very serious issue, its not a joke. Its sad that I have to worry day to day whether or not my son is going to be able to function normal in society. Its a very scary reality that there a thousands of parents out there going through the same thing. Think about it, one day you may have to go through the same thing with your child. Take it seriously, because there are people out there that have had their lives turned upside down due to mental illness. Its not a joke.
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I agree it's not a joke. I saw his sister's post and can only imagine the pain his family is enduring.
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Exactly...because not only does he get labeled, so does his family. No one really even knows what they have been through with him, its easy to pass judgement when you only have the minor details, its really sad to see how low the maturity level is of some people on here....and these are the future leaders of America...scary
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That's right, an atheist draws a cross on his hand before approaching an atheists' table he was standing by for about an hour to ask the students to stab him to prove to them that God exists. It's very obvious he's an atheist, makes perfect sense.
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his religious views are irrelevant to the situation. the cause to why he did this cannot be identified by the information given to the public, nor can the point he was trying to make be proven. regardless, it was a very extreme way to make a point, but it can be imagined that he didn't think about the serious implications it could have.
of course this is being brought up by someone who didnt witness the scene. im sure that those who talked to him have a better understanding of what his intentions were. a very disappointing outcome nonetheless. one outbreak of instability will change the rest of his life. 3 felony charges.. hopefully he can reexamine his believes and use them to get through the hardships that await him
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Even to those of us who were present at the scene, Mr. Huppert's motivations were unclear. His actions, manner, and speech seemed very disorganized.
I and Free@VT are definitely of the opinion that Mr. Huppert's religious views are irrelevant to this incident. We are hoping for the best for Alex and his family.
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You're obviously misunderstanding the story.
& This story really has nothing to do with religion but more of an mental health issue, He is not atheist what so ever, not that it matters.
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You're obviously misunderstanding the story.
& This story really has nothing to do with religion but more of an mental health issue, He is not atheist what so ever, not that it matters.
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Kinda silly that a bunch of college kids would claim to be atheists anyway. Or any other strict religious belief. It takes age to come into that sort of thing - when youth adheres to it you get situations exactly like this.
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I hope you are trolling, because otherwise I am confused as to what you think we should be saying about our beliefs. I do not believe in any gods, thus I am an atheist. To claim I am not would be to lie.
Furthermore, atheism is:
*Not a religion.
*Not "strict."
*Not limited to old people.
*Not the cause of this incident.
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Interesting, Ms. Schrand. However, how would you prove that:
* Atheism is NOT a religion? Do you even know what a religion is? Don't you rely on your belief of atheism?
* Atheism is NOT "strict"? Can an atheist believe in God? or in no god?
* Atheism was NOT cause of this incident? Lol, what do you think was? Fact is, that unfortunate young man stabbed himself at your event. There is absolutely a strong causal relationship between your event and the incident. You, in part, were a cause of that incident.
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@Bee:
* I'm quite aware of what religion is. Generally, it requires a belief in a deity, and at the very least, a belief in something supernatural. Atheism precludes these beliefs. To put it simply, atheism is a religion like "OFF" is a channel on the television. I do not rely upon my "belief in atheism" because it is not a belief. It is a lack of belief. I rely upon it no more than you rely upon your lack of belief in unicorns, fairies, or Zeus.
* Claiming that atheism is strict because it doesn't allow for belief in gods is like claiming that being tall is strict because it doesn't allow for being short. The definition of atheism is a lack of belief in deities. Furthermore, there is no dogma associated with atheism, nor a codified set of beliefs.
* As is frequently noted by my professors and textbooks, correlation does not imply causation. While the Ask an Atheist event may have triggered the unfortunate incident last Wednesday, it is likely that any sufficiently strong stressor could have triggered a similar reaction, especially as Mr. Huppert may have been under the influence of a drug.
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Maybe VT should pay more attention to Med records and a background check instead of GPA and a really nice essay!
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Really?! So no one with a history of mental illness should get into college?! I myself suffer from anxiety now, but it didn't even bother me in college. Really ignorant statement. And so many ignorant comments in general. This kid grew up in my neighborhood. My parents still live out there and they're a nice family. I am sad that my fellow Hokies would treat someone in need of some serious help like this. I hope he gets the help he needs and can live a happy life.
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Refusing admission based on mental disorders would be discriminatory and inappropriate. Admissions are offered (theoretically) based on merit, and essays, SAT scores, and GPAs are much more valid ways of measuring merit than medical records and background checks.
Many disorders can be controlled with proper treatment, and furthermore, mental disorders are quite common, and it is difficult to tell which ones could result in danger to self or others.
Not to mention that a background check wouldn't have turned up anything on Mr. Huppert, as he actually seems to be a pretty great guy.
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Although a story like this really brings out the trolls, I think it's obvious that the student Freethinkers and Campus Crusade for Christ groups conducted themselves admirably, both in the lively and respectful discussion before Mr. Huppert became involved, and in the way they worked together under pressure to help a fellow student who was in serious trouble. The public presence of those students welcoming questions may have saved that young man's life. I hope the VT community can come together to support him rather than use this awful incident as fodder for cruel jokes.
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alex used to live on my street and he saved my life when i went into anaphylactic shock from a peanut and this doesn't change what i think about him at all. he was always so nice and polite and i don't think he was "all there" that day i guess. i still respect him and always will.
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Thank You!! Your kindness is appreciated.
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I wish we could nominate comments as worthy of being highlighted or something. This has been a mostly great discussion with intelligent responses even to the few inappropriate ones. This comment sums it all up. Nice job all.
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You can Believe in God or not, but the history of too many of the major religions is "godawful"
It is extremely addictive, and contributes to much of the world's ignorance and violence.
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Are you referring to the Civil Rights movement which was formed in the churches of the South? Or perhaps all the health clinics created in the third world by churches? Or perhaps all the Habitat houses, soup kitchens, homeless shelters and food pantries built by church groups?
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